LJP: See, I have to laugh because I have this thing where they think we’re amoebas-Black people are amoebas- which are single-celled, one feeling, one emotion animals with one single belief and that’s not true. In regards to the blues: first and foremost, blues originally, coming from New Orleans, was given the word “blue” because it was risqué. It’s a French- derived word, based off of French burlesque- because at the time the French and Spanish occupied Louisiana. So, it was more or less risqué.

So I’m of the theory that blues is the birth child of black spirituals and slave seculars. More slave seculars than black spirituals. Because slave seculars were parodies. So, now, if you have risqué music with parodies, that’s one sometimes it’s extremely r-rated, so to speak. Now, with that being said, it’s also celebratory, right- because people are never just always feeling low down, dirty, and disgusting. And we also have to realize the majority of these musicians were literally working musicians- they were pillars of the communities who didn’t just play for black parties, but they played for white parties and elite parties, and they had a variation of musics for each event.

I say that to say if we go with the narrative that Black people are just downtrodden and “Aww, Massa”- if we go with that narrative, at the end of the week, they wanted to enjoy themselves. So why would they go somewhere to hear someone playing music that’s going to remind them in a very depressed manor what they just experienced- they’re going there to have a good time. They’re going there to laugh and dance. So yes, blues does reflect the Black experience, but every Black experience that we have- not just in the past, but presently today. 

Chris Thomas King is a perfect example. His last album was removed from the Blues Grammy nominee section. They said it wasn’t a blues album. There were people who told me “Well, he has about four cuts on it that’s blue, but the rest of it isn’t blues.” I mean, what determines what’s blues? Who makes that determination? Blues is of the folk- it’s folk music. So Black people make the determination of what blues is, first and foremost. Secondly, that’s why it’s not good to be a purist, because you will never understand the true authenticity of the music because it’s really a broad music with a specific note. So, no, it’s not all downtrodden. (I say that in) In a very long-winded way (laughs).

BWP: Yeah, and there’s a bit in Amiri Baraka’s “Blues People” where he speaks to the wider range of experiences that Black people who were formerly enslaved were exposed to upon emancipation: the traveling they would have to do, the difference in how their work was structured, the difference in how their lives were structured, a wider sense of agency- in terms of the forms of expression. Can you speak more specifically to that broad range of emotion?

LJP: Ok, so let’s see. First and foremost, post emancipation, for me, is where the real blues started. Because now it’s freed Blacks with free Black expression.

BWP: We have some songs that are specifically about love, some songs that are specifically just, kind of nonsense, some songs that are about traveling, some songs that are about work, some songs that are about leisure- which is a thing that our people didn’t have (laughs).

JLP: Well, if you let “them” tell it. You know, we had free Black people. I think it’s Tony Thomas-

BWP: Black banjo gathering Tony Thomas*-

JLP: Yeah, yeah. I interviewed him, and he said something, and it opened me up a lot more: you have to be open to the truth and not go into it with your own truth already, or then you will miss things. Blues music has been depicted as some traveling hobo with a guitar. That is just one story and, for what it’s worth, we have to also remember musicians of the old days-from, let’s says, emancipation ‘til the early twenties- were not dumb people. Men and women in bands. So, they would put different names like “Blues,” “Ragtime Johnny,” or whatever you call it, because they knew what was popular at the time, so they could get hired. Ultimately, you can have a song that can be considered ragtime, but it’s actually blues- but the person put ragtime in front of it so it could sell.

Back to the downtrodden- lemme see- I would think of more “jump blues” comes to mind, because that’s a very happy music. It’s celebratory and- real quick- we could break down jump blues, which became the model of rent parties in Harlem. So, these people who are down on their finances-which supposedly would be a downtrodden moment- have a rent party with the jump blues piano players and everybody’s dancing and singing and laughing. In what is to be a very bad moment, so to speak. So, there’s a contrast there. 

BWP: It’s important that you talk about not being that amoeba because as music teachers- and I’m guilty of this myself- we focus on standard 12-bar blues a lot. So that takes out a lot of the context of what blues actually is, when we focus on that very specific harmonic form.

JLP: And that’s the thing, my first introduction to not listening but playing the blues was 12 bar blues. And you would think everything’s 12 bar blues, then you start noticing it in popular music from the 80s all the way up. But then when you actually dig, there are so many variations of the style, of how this is played. 

The blues is definitely taught, expressed and lectured in terms of its "historical" narrative by non-Black Americans in a way that implies a lack of full-ranging Black emotional expression. Not in all cases, of course...and all of it isn't done maliciously. The real issue is, the intent doesn't matter, the proper context of the expression is rarely delivered to give a full scope of the black experience, let alone black feelings, thoughts and behavior. One of the main issues is, how can you give a full scope, if you don't know the origins. You know, the what and where. Along with the perception of Black Folk by non-Black folk. 

So, It’s not limited at all to one thing. It is just not limited, at all. And I think the purists, the enthusiasts, the revivalists of the 60s- they kind of capitalized and marginalized a the same time. Because you know, Chuck Berry, who may say he’s not the blues, plays the blues. James Brown and his Famous Flames, they were doing blues. Little Richard was doing blues. Hip-hop is blues. It’s the great, great grandchild of the blues. Soul and R&B and all this stuff, this is all blues- it’s just Black music. 

I recently learned about a prek-5 general music jazz curriculum called "I Have a Song Inside My Heart" that offers a lesson on the blues.  The lesson encourages expression of a range of emotions, and I loved the language they used: "The blues is a song we sing to express how we feel!"

You can view the blues lesson as a free sample and check out the rest of this great curriculum at www.ihaveasonginsidemyheart.com.

The curriculum was designed by educators and professional musicians. The organization also conducts in-school residencies and assemblies. 

Fishing Blues. Recorded 1928. Vocalion Records. Thomas, Henry 

Baraka, A. (1963). Blues People: Negro Music in White America. New York: W. Morrow

*Music historian and traditional musician Tony Thomas founded and hosted Black Banjo Now and Then, a listserve that connected musicians and scholars to discuss the banjo's ties to Africa and the instrument's legacy. Discussions and connections made in the forum lead to the development of an event called the Black Banjo Gathering, which was held at Appalachian State University in 2005. The event was organized by folklorist Cece Conway and highlighted the Black roots of American old time music.

*For a short intro to "Jump Blues," https://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2009/06/rock_roll_summer_school_jump_b.html